Webinar The human-centric long-term client review meeting

(00:04): Hi, thank you very much for joining. This is meeting number four that we're looking at here in our human-centric advice series that comes out of Money:Mindshift. This here is the client review meeting for long-term clients, and it follows naturally the client review meeting that we looked at in the previous webinar. Let's look into what we are covering in this particular webinar. So we are beginning with a reflection on the evolution of the adviser client relationship. We then look into the purpose of the client review meeting. Also, a definition is in here. We look into how you prepare for that meeting, how you're rebuilding trust, what it means to be a good listener. You know this now by now, if indeed you have watched the previous webinars, but this is the always very similar superstructure of these webinars before we then spend a bit of time on in some depth into the structure of the client review meeting, the hopes and fears approach that we are introducing.

(01:18): And then also we provide a few ideas and tips and trick tricks on what to apply after the meeting. So let's look into the evolution of the adviser client relationship to begin with. And perhaps you agree with that observation that is here on this page. So I'm assuming I won't go through this in detail. So again, you can pause and you can look at this in, in, in detail, but I am assuming that there is a sort of initial phase where after you've completed the fact find and you enter the long-term relationship, there's a bit of a, what could be called the fixed phase, right? Which is really the time where you solve immediate problems. So, and as a result, you're resolving issues around, you know, the financial plan. You're looking into budgeting into insurance, tax planning, investment setup, et cetera. And typically clients are quite engaged because they're solving quite pressing issues at that stage. Now, after the initial fixing is done, clients, I think it's fair to say, often settle into a routine where everything is fine, right? But where the real risk is that the energy begins to wane, right? And traditional check-ins, you know, a bit of you know how's things, has anything changed? "You're still on track. See you next time." All these things, they no longer inspire or deepen the relationship.

(02:58): And I think it's probably fair to assume that the relationship is not necessarily at risk as such, but it can certainly improve. We see retainment rates are quite high, typically in the industry, but the relationship can improve. And this is an important consideration also when we're looking into referrals, as we do in the the next episode the next webinar. So let's look briefly then into the purpose of this particular meeting. Now look at this page here. And you see that really it's about taking a moment to reaffirm your client's progress. So it's about highlighting the steps they've taken since the last meeting. Celebrate achievements. It's about enforcing momentum and build confidence. It's about reconnecting with their evolving goals by exploring any changes in their life or priorities, ensuring the plan stays aligned with what really matters to them.

(04:06): So you want to deepen engagement, shifting conversation beyond numbers, reflecting on their broader aspirations, values, concerns. And finally, you want to provide that forward momentum by introducing fresh ideas short-term goals as well, or next steps that can keep the journey that keeps the journey exciting and reinforces you as a trusted partner. So the definition, if you will, and again - look at the individual components, but the meeting's really a structured opportunity to evaluate your client's progress towards their long-term financial goals, address any new developments or shifting priorities, and ensure their plan remains aligned with what matters. It's also a chance to deepen the relationship by engaging in meaningful forward-looking conversations, celebrating milestones, exploring new possibilities and reigniting excitement about their financial journey, right? You want to prepare for that meeting, of course. And as always, there is a mental side to prepare - a mental preparation, and then there is a logistical preparation as well.

(05:21): So, as far as mental preparation goes, approach this meeting, not as a routine check-in. This is different to the typical client-review meetings. It's a chance to rediscover the client. So you want to ask different questions, we come onto this, but you assume they've changed because chances are they have and use curiosity. Again, we looked into this in the previous webinar. Use curiosity to uncover what's new in their hopes and fears and priorities. So you prepare yourself by asking, what do I not know about them yet? And then contrast assumptions with what they actually share. And this, this mindset shift that transforms the meeting into that meaningful engaging experience for both of you. As far as logistical preparation goes, I mean, I'm repeating myself here a lot, right? So this is really, expectation management is so important. I always say this.

(06:20): So rather than the usual agenda, you want to be clear that this is slightly different and you want to invite them to that effect. Consider also that perhaps you want to do another setup. So you perhaps do not want to do this where you typically meet, be it their home, be it your office, be it a virtual call, whatever, whatever it may be. But consider doing something, I don't know, go to a cafe, perhaps a hotel lobby perhaps I don't know, go for a walk. Something like that. Something, something that is different, right? Because this is going to be a slightly different meeting. So consider this as you're preparing logistically for the meeting as far as rebuilding trust goes. So I put this emphasis here on rebuilding trust because, you know, as before, you probably have that trust, you most likely will have that trust.

(07:18): But I want to reflect on this, the importance of so as to be considered trustworthy, that you also want to share you know, you want to share wisely. You want to share carefully some things about yourself. So you want to be sharing, you know what, I don't know what your own fears are, what your own own hopes are, what perhaps you're proud yourself you have achieved in your, in your, in your private life, okay? Or at least be mindful of that. And then, you know, sparsely, but do, but do share these things when the opportunity arises. So this is, you know an opportunity to show how you are also human and how you are also getting what they're saying, et cetera, right? So they're not speaking to a robot, they're speaking to a human who gets why instincts, emotions, context factors, vulnerabilities, values, all these things you know, really play a role when building a long-term financial plan. But there is a but, and this is something that is being highlighted by the work that comes out of the authors of the 'Trusted Advisor'. You have the reference here in the footnote and they work on the Trust Equation where they say credibility, reliability, and intimacy, they are important. But the the one component, the one variable I want you to reflect on, especially here as far as the trust formula, the trust equation, goes, is self-orientation.

(08:54): Because self-orientation is the only negative component of the trust equation. So that refers to, self-orientation, refers to, where your focus lies. Is it on yourself or is it on the other person? In the context of trust that matters because high self-orientation means you are perceived as being focused on your own needs, your own agenda, and your own anxieties. When low self-orientation means you're seen as genuinely focused on the client's needs, their concerns, their anxieties, okay? So there's got to be a bit of sharing about yourself and what are those things that, you know, drive you and that make you human. But the sort of really careful path or balance to strike here is that you don't want to come across as though the orientation is on you, rather it's going to be on them.

(09:55): So bear that in mind when you sparsely and strategically share things about yourself. Now, I came across these findings here in the context of what it means to be a good listener from, again, the Russell Investments, the sources here in the footnote. I thought that was interesting, and it just speaks again to the importance of asking good questions. So if an adviser...this is the top example here. If an adviser asked questions in 26% of exchanges, then the adviser talks 54% of the time, and the client has the opportunity to express just over 1,200 words. If, however, an adviser asked questions 63% of the time in exchanges, then he or she only talked 27% of the time. And it is nearly three times the number of sorry, more than three times actually the number of sentences and words that are being expressed by the client.

(11:04): So really, I think this, and of course, you can see what sort of meeting, what sort of scenario is the one that makes the client feel better when, of course, the one where they have a lot of bandwidth, where they have a bit of, where they have more airtime, right? That's going to be the one where they're feeling good. So yeah, be very mindful that you're wanting to ask questions, that you're wanting to listen so as to give that air time to the client and dial back your own desire to speak and be heard. When this is all about the client. This was an example now from a discovery meeting, but I think this applies universally beyond the discovery meeting as well.

(11:53): Now, I think this is, this is something that is difficult. So that, you know, I think it is very normal. I know this from my own podcasts that when I interview guests and I listen to what say, part of me listens, but part of me also goes like, okay, be be mindful of when they pause so that you can say something and then be mindful of, you know, what could be a clever follow-up question. And so, you know, you don't want that to be silence once they stop speaking. And that's very normal. It's very common, but I think you really want to be comfortable with silence. So, it's not a bad thing. It's, you know, in fact, as I say here on this page, it's about creating space. So there's silence. You know, chances are a) it doesn't feel as bad for the client as it does for you. But b), it really provides that space for them to just ponder and reflect and, you know, add.

(12:52): There is research from, I think her name is Nancy Klein, and the book is called something like The One Promise I Make. And she speaks about how she makes the promise to not say anything at all. And she shares how, as a coach, her success rate. So helping her clients solve the problems they came to see her for, have gone through the roof since she stopped talking altogether. Because of course, what happens is they make a point, they say something, they come to an end, they stop. There's silence, and then they sit on the silence, and then they continue, they fill it, and as they continue and fill the silence, something new comes up. And that happens in a few iterations.

(14:01): And after a while they've worked out the solution. So it's quite amazing. There's a lot of power in silence, so it makes you feel uncomfortable, but just, you know, try, sit with it. Count to 20, count to 10 or something, you know, and force yourself to not say anything. Another point I wanted to make on the note of follow-up questions, because I talked about powerful follow-up questions in the client review meeting, is that you also don't want to sound as though you're interrogating them. So down here in this page, on this slide, you have ideas for how you can phrase something in a more gentle way, right?

(14:50): When, you know, rather than saying "What's important about money to you". "I'd love to understand what's important to you when it comes to money." So, you know, same effect of the question, but you see how the emphasis or by putting it this way, you're making it slightly less sort of forceful, right? Well, with all this being said, let's look then into the structure of this particular type of client review meeting. Now, what I think what you should do first is you should revisit, you should look at financial plans of the last 10 years. And remember, I had this recommendation of what a financial plan could look like, and, you know build your own one. But I made the point that this is a financial plan that really connects the financials with what matters, right? The mechanics with life or the life that the mechanics are there to support.

(15:49): And as this is a long term, as this is a meeting for long-term clients, you will have a few of these one pagers, right? And I think what you can do is you can just go through the one pagers of the past to look at where were we 15 years ago? Where were we, 12, 10, 8, 5 years ago? There's a few things that happen, I think when you do this. One is as I, as I say here on this page, you're sort of highlighting your value. So you are you know, celebrating success. You can say something like, look at what we've achieved together. So that message is being, being conveyed, but there's also what is happening here. This is important for what is to follow in this meeting is you are combatting the end-of-history illusion. And the end-of-history illusion is that we are often seeing ourselves and where we are now.

(16:49): We are oftentimes seeing this as this is where we got to, and this is where we will remain, right? So here I am, this is my job, this is what I will do until I retire. Perhaps, you know, or here I am now I've retired now - this is going to be me, and so on, right? So there'sthe end-of-history illusion. And the fact is, of course, it is an illusion, as the name says, it is an illusion because context change, priorities change you know desires, hopes, and fears, all these things change over the course of time. So this is another thing you want to land at this point, that you know goals, less so values, but really goals, priorities have changed over the course of the time that you've had that relationship.

(17:44): So that's what you want to highlight. At that point when in the first 15 minutes of the plan, you're taking a bit of time to look at what you have jointly achieved since you two entered that relationship. I say you two, perhaps there's a wider household that is being considered in the relationship as well. So then comes the part that is really different. And you know, what I will say here that this is work that we have that has been conducted with my former colleague, Emily Shipp, who was working in my team in a partnership with the University of Edinburgh in a knowledge-transfer partnership funded by Innovate UK. And this is where this hopes and fears approach that I'm about to introduce you to generated from - where this has been established.

(18:43): And there are, two parts to this meeting. The first one is a lighter one where, so we are assuming here a client who is aged 45. And here you are you meet them. Perhaps you go on a walk with them, perhaps you see them in a cafe wherever you conduct this meeting, as I say, don't perhaps, you know, consider doing it in another setup. And here they are, age 45, you want to ask them, what are you glad you did? Now look back at where you are. Look back at the last five years, the last 10 years, where you are in your life. What are you glad you did? Okay? You can ask yourself that question. What are you glad you did? And if you want to do this yourself, perhaps now is a good time to just hit the pause button very quick, to ask yourself that question. What are you glad you did?

(19:39): Then in the second part of this first exercise, you want to ask the client, now think about yourself aged 60, okay? In 15 years time, what will you be glad you did? So, and you see what's happening here is you'retraining a part of the brain that in neuroscience and psychology to be called the prospective brain? And that's a concept that comes out of neuroscience and psychology that refers to the brain's ability to imagine simulate plan for future events. So it's obviously tied to prospect, which is the mental process of, of thinking and anticipating the future. So key features of the prospective brain are mental time travel, and you know, humans are the only species who can do that. We can go back in the past, we can wonder like, what was it like in the past?

(20:37): We can go into the future, we can contemplate what is it like to think about the future, right? So when we recall past experiences at episodic memory, the prospective brain allows us to project ourselves forward in time to imagine possible scenarios outcomes and actions as well. So of course, the prospective brain also plays a crucial role in decision making. So it plays a role when setting goals and when preparing upcoming challenges or opportunities. So all these things are components of the prospective brain, and that's what you're doing here. That's what you're doing when you're asking this question. What will you be glad you did? You know, it links a lot to the other webinars, where we spoke about the importance of having a long-term mental time horizon and why you really want to help your clients develop their long-term mental time horizon.

(21:37): Before I come to the core of the meeting, I want to take a step back briefly, and I want to reflect on the five fundamentals that help shape your advice. And this goes back a little bit to work that we have done at Aegon as part of our second 50 campaign. And the second 50 campaign, that is a campaign that speaks to the label of the 100-year life, okay? The 100-year life. That's a phrase coined by Linda Gratton and Andrew Scott, who not only point out that there's longevity, and that we as a group, humans, as a group are becoming older than ever before, but also the lives that we are living nowadays, as opposed to 50 years ago or a hundred years ago, are much more complex in the sense that they're no longer just this three-stage life of first education, then work, then retirement.

(22:45): Rather, what is happening is we still have something like education in the beginning. We still have something like retirement in the end, but, you know, retirement increasingly means different things to different people. Some people phase into retirement, some people say phase out of retirement, some people never retire. But this sort of cliff-edge type retirement, as Christine Benz quoted on my podcast, that doesn't, that increasingly less often exists. But crucially also this, this period in between work is much more you know, multifaceted nowadays, so long gone, nowadays anyway, when you had an employer you know, and you were sticking with that employer from hire to retire. That's long gone anyway. But even, you know, we are not just having multiple employers nowadays. We're even having multiple careers as well, right? First career, second career, third career. We have transition points in between, and there are numerous reasons for that.

(23:50): Sometimes it's perhaps because we you know, lose interest in a job. That was what happened in the aftermath of COVID, the great resignation, and people were reflecting what's actually important to me. Perhaps also though, you know, we are forced out of jobs because of the rise of AI, the rise of robots. Perhaps we are reassessing priorities and we're saying something like, we want to take more time with the kids, or perhaps we're needing to take time out to take care of elderly relatives. So all these things make life planning much harder nowadays, and really also speak, I think, to the importance of this human-centric type of financial advice that we are speaking about. Remember how this was in the overview session that I gave in the webinar? Really what I believe is the crucial sort of dilemma of our times is that we have got to make these trade-offs between present selves and future selves, both in terms of happiness as well as in terms of financial security.

(24:57): And we have these, we are asking ourselves all the time, these questions, when, when it comes to questions like, you know, should I accept a higher paying job offer, even though that means I've got to spend some of that money on nursery costs because I don't have the time with the children. Questions like, should I reeducate? Should I take time out of work to re-educate? Should I become a sole trader and follow my dreams? Or should I stick in a corporate job I don't like, et cetera? So all these things, right? So I think these are the dilemmas of the time. We all I think are sort of pondering these things present self versus future self happiness, now, happiness in the future, financial security, now financial security in the future. So that I think is, is really the crux of it and why I think financial life planning is so important, to play such a, such an important role.

(25:50): Now, back to the second 50. What the second 50 highlighted is that for a successful long life, money plays a role. But crucially, it isn't the only thing that matters, right? And this is what is being highlighted here on this page. It is also work or, you know, purpose. It is also wealth, of course. So there is the financial side, but then family matters a lot. Health, both mental and physical and wellbeing in general. As in, you know, what is it that gives you that sense of gratification, that gives you that sense of purpose? You know, the way I spoke about it when I spoke about Paul Dolan's work from Happiness by Design. Anyway, so that framework here, those five components, they inform the second part of the hopes and fears meeting, which is where you invite the client to remain focused on their future self. In this example, age 60.

(26:55): And you invite them to speak about their hopes and fears in relation to health, wealth, family, work and wellbeing, right? So what are your hopes in relation to health? What are your fears in relation to health? What are your hopes in relation to your financial situation? What are your fears in relation to your financial situation? Okay? It's a very simple, it's a very simple framework, but of course, I would say it is one that really makes financial planning, long-term financial planning, very meaningful or paves the way for that certainly. Here's an example of what it could look like. I will only read out one example, and you can again pause and study the rest of it later on. But in relation to health, a hope the client may express is that at age 60, I hopefully am still fit enough to go hiking at weekends.

(27:56): So this is a hobby. This is something how the client would like to spend their leisure time, okay? So this is what their hope is for them at age 60, but the fear is that I worry about burning out at work if we keep up these long if I keep up these long work hours, okay? And of course, could be something else, but this, this is, this is an example. So this is an example of hopes and fears, and sort of feedback that you are inviting. I was asked this question, is it the case that some people are more hopeful and some people are more fearful? And is that the purpose of it? Actually, I don't think that's so much the case. You're right. I mean, some people, the adviser who asked the question, is right.

(28:47): You know, some people are perhaps more pessimistic, others are perhaps more optimistic or hopeful and are more drawn to you know, one or the other. But I would say that even when you are pessimistic, then really you are pessimistic because you're fearing for the hopes that you have, right? So I still believe that you can express the hopes and fears even well, the hopes in that case, even if by nature or by character, you are more of a pessimistic type of person, or you're finding it easier to express your fears rather than the hopes. But you see perhaps where I'm coming from and you know, you want to tailor the conversation a little bit. If, you know, the client is perhaps more pessimistic, you know, perhaps it is, perhaps this is an argument in favor of starting with the fears before addressing the hopes that are, you know, associated with the fears.

(29:44): You can tailor it, but I would say that it isn't a stretch of the imagination for most people to come up with hopes and fears in relation to those five components. Now, perhaps also you can see how everything that is being said here in this example links back to a financial plan. And this is why I think asking these questions will really pave the way for a financial consideration or financial conversation that follows. And in fact, that is what I believe you where, where you want to get to in the end. When you think about the final, like five to 10 minutes of, of this meeting, you want to think about, you know, you want to summarise the, the next steps. You want to summarise the key takeaways. You want to confirm the next steps. And you really, and when I say the next steps, really what this is about is the financial plan and making sure, or conveying that the financial plan either addresses all the hopes and fears that have been expressed by the client in that meeting.

(30:58): Or indeed, you know, the financial plan needs adapted because of hopes and fears that have been, that have transpired in that meeting. I think you want to reflect on this back on what I said earlier. I think you want to reflect on achievements when I said the purpose of the meeting is to reconnect and, you know, re-excite and rejuvenate the relationship when it may be at risk of becoming a bit stale. So yeah, end on a high by referring back to the achievements that have been made since you and your client or the, the household of the client entered the relationship, right? And that is the hope, that's the structure of the hopes and fears meeting. What you can do right afterwards is you can convey in a follow-up email that you're sending within, I don't know, 48 hours or three days or so, you can convey how the plan might need to adapt as a result of them having expressed the hopes and fears. Or, you know, it may not be the case, and you can just reinforce. And as far the financial plan that you have built actually you know is how the hopes and fears that that were expressed are being addressed by the financial plan that you have. Okay? I won't go through the learning outcomes here. You can, you can pause if you needed to recap what we did. But this in a way completes the human-centric, the meeting series of the Human-Centric Advice series.

(32:40): There's one more webinar on a human-centric way of thinking about referrals and doing referral management, where there is still a meeting component to it. But as far as the usual client adviser journey goes, where youstart , with a screener, an initial meeting, then you have a fact -find or planning meeting, then you have a client review meeting, then you have this client review meeting for long-term clients. As far as this journey goes, this is the last one here in the series, but watch the other webinar here on the Money:Mindshift page, so as to find the one on referrals, which looks at psychology of referrals, and how to address the subject of referrals in a human-centric way. Thank you for watching, and I see you perhaps in the referral seminar and webinar. Thank you.